After the crisis it has just gone through, French rugby wants to be ambitious. Immediate objective: reach the World Cup final which begins on September 8. Will the Blues measure up? Elected president of the French Rugby Federation in June 2023, Florian Grill, who succeeds Alexandre Martinez, acting president since the resignation of Bernard Laporte, hopes so.
According to this com pro, who defends a return to village rugby, climbing to the top of the world would be an excellent lever for French soft power. Whatever the result, the new president intends to relaunch the oval ball by betting on a balanced growth of sport in all its dimensions. For this, he is working to convince companies to invest more in rugby, and not just for the visibility of jerseys and TV rights.
Le Point: You are a very young president, elected only two months ago at the head of the FFR. Is the crisis that you have just experienced, after the departure of Bernard Laporte, behind you?
Florian Grill: Yes, I believe. With my team, we played the game of appeasement to federate all energies and get out of what I would call clan governance. A few weeks before an event as exceptional as the organization of the Rugby World Cup in our country, we had an absolute imperative: to close ranks around the Blues, to give them the example of union, of surpassing oneself, of petty rivalries and even legitimate ambitions.
We can say it like that, but it goes well beyond a truce of circumstance. We had to get out of this deadly conflict as quickly as possible, which only brings division. It is for this reason that, as soon as I was elected, I welcomed five supporters of Bernard Laporte to the federal bureau, made up of twelve members. This gesture of conciliation, I did not do it for the sole purpose of welcoming world rugby in serenity. The message was understood, even by those who were my adversaries. After two months of governance, there is no longer a clan, quite simply because we act in the most total transparency. It’s a new mode of management, it’s true.
Mind you, I’m not saying that before me the world was all black; I had even voted 80% of Bernard Laporte’s governance decisions. On the sporting level, he did a good job. Our disagreements were about ethical and management issues, which were far too brutal, without much transparency. Serge Simon, for example, during the conflict, had imposed an iron rule which forbade his supporters to speak to us. The day after my election, last June, I opened my office to anyone who wanted to discuss. Today, the consensus is general within the Federal Office.
So, everything going well to start this World Cup? Haven’t you dusted the carpet a bit, launched a form of “clean hands”, low noise operation, to reassure the supporters?
I am neither a judge nor a vigilante. The proof, when I arrived at my post, I fully supported the staff of the Blues, all of whose members were appointed by Bernard Laporte. Consensus, union, solidarity, this is the path to follow if we want to reach the roof of the world. If, with Jean-Marc Lhermet, vice-president in charge of high performance, we have retained our confidence in the staff in place around Fabien Galthié, it is because they are the best. Fabien Galthié has not publicly hidden his friendship with Bernard Laporte. I totally respect this closeness. It was announced that, inevitably, a new crisis was going to arise, one day or another, between the coach and me. There has even been talk of chaos in perspective. Again, that was absurd. I am not a bully and I respect field friendships.
Very soon after my election, I dined with Fabien to remove all the ambiguities, the misunderstandings, distilled by some. During this interview, we talked about player bonuses for winning, or qualifying, for the World Cup final. To my great surprise, Fabien was not involved in the discussions led by Serge Simon. Remuneration is, of course, one of the levers of performance. It seemed absurd to me that the management of the Blues was excluded from the negotiations. They are the ones who are closest to the players, who can dialogue with them, inform them of the status of the file. Serge Simon, the vice-president then in office, had “forgotten” them. With Jean-Marc Lhermet, we immediately put them in the discussion loop.
Thus, we were able to reach an agreement thanks to the collective intelligence of the staff and the players: they will receive 100% of the partner bonuses that we will receive if we are world champions or vice-world champions, but no more. In this way, we do not go beyond the budgetary framework, while the conversations led by Serge Simon generated an overrun of several million euros which would have widened the deficit of the FFR even more.
It’s an order of magnitude if they are world champions.
For 33 players concerned, this should be around 7 million euros?
It should be around this figure: it is significant but logical in view of the impact of the Blues on the finances of the FFR. Although we have managed not to downgrade the budget any further, the fact remains that we have a very serious budget deficit problem. The operating loss, announced at 9 million euros by the Laporte staff, after verification, could actually approach 20 million euros. On a budget of 130 million, that’s a big, big hole. We will have to tighten our belts or find new sources of funding.
How do you plan to go about it?
Most partner growth is already projected in the budget, but if we’re world champions, that should help us build some extra momentum. Still, to get out of the crisis, we must change the paradigm. You have to win to make the country smile again, you have to “make a nation”. In the event that we are going to experience, there is the visible part of the iceberg, the sporting performance of the Blues, oh so important. And then there is what I call citizen rugby, the interest that we must take in the 1,950 clubs that mesh the territory. What are the places where people of all ages, all backgrounds mingle? In clubs, mainly.
Rugby was invented two hundred years ago in England for its educational virtues: loyalty, respect, solidarity. Society has long been organized around steeples. This is less true today. Local clubs in villages and towns are essential players in living together. They too help to “make a nation”. Today, our ambition is to explore new territories.
We have an objective, for example: to have one hundred “healthy” rugby sections for people with cancer, diabetes, sections for women in remission from breast cancer (30 sections). These people practice rugby at 5 [also called rugby to touch, editor’s note], without shock, without veneer, to work the upper body. We currently have 270 clubs operating in priority areas of the city. We also have rugby sections for children or adults with disabilities… It seems far from the immediate news, but the stakes are there.
Some supporters of the all-professional will call you a boy scout, or even a social worker…
You have to let them say it. The World Cup, of course, I dream of seeing the Blues win it. But this remains a fleeting event. His legacy will help us consolidate the social project that rugby carries within it. There is nothing utopian about forming a nation. I give you an example. The federation has set up job dating operations, in conjunction with the Ministry of Employment. We bring together 100 long-term job seekers and executives from 20 companies. They are made to play rugby 5, in anonymity without knowing who is the boss, who is the job seeker. At the end of the match, we organize a lunch as rugby likes it. There, we reveal who is who. They spent the morning sweating together. Result: we have return to work rates of more than 60%.
To drop below the 7% mark for the unemployment rate, President Macron’s objective, it is these long-term jobless people who must be sought out, those who are paralyzed by the idea of doing a classic interview with recruitment.
Yes, he was in contact with the association Ovale Citoyen. He was starting rugby. He had the perfect profile to get out of his condition through rugby. For us, it’s a terrible mess, which takes us to the guts. We are facing a huge construction site for which we are laying the very first stones. At the moment, we have just paid, in Île-de-France, thirty educators who play rugby “at the foot of a building” and also in schools in priority neighborhoods. Our problem: the funding only lasts for one year, and we have more than eighteen public funders between the regional or departmental prefectures, the region or the departmental councils! A real maze. How do you want to move fast under these conditions? We are urgently calling for multi-annual resources and a single funding window.
How did you react after the July riots?
Following the Nahel tragedy, we set up an express operation, with the National Sports Agency, and with the Minister of Sports and the Olympic and Paralympic Games Amélie Oudéa-Castéra. With funding of 150,000 euros, we organized 375 half-days in August, of rugby discovery actions in neighborhoods targeting girls who have a very positive reaction capacity. It’s a very good start, but it’s only a drop in the bucket. Hundreds of clubs responded immediately. It is necessary that, at the top of the State, this kind of action becomes a national priority. Sport is what creates the most social ties in our country. Especially among youth. We are asking the State to give us more resources and long-term visibility.
Aren’t you afraid to substitute for the state for this “societal mission”, as you call it? We are very far from spectator sport, a path that others, before you, seemed to take.
Everyone must stay in their role. We cannot content ourselves with professional rugby to mobilize new vital forces. The more meaning we give to our actions, the more relevant we will be. The two are not incompatible. At the moment, I am trying to convince companies to invest more in rugby, and not only for the visibility of jerseys and TV rights, but also in the context of corporate sponsorship. The jersey advertising model will continue to exist, of course, but we have to give meaning to what we do.
To the large companies already involved with us, I ask to go further than a simple partnership to gain notoriety and visibility. I ask them to help the hundred clubs which are going to create an “adapted rugby” section, those which are going to create a healthy rugby section, or even those which are going to invest in priority neighborhoods, and also the 1,950 clubs which can accommodate overweight children. With us, they will find a second family: we are one of the few sports where their weight is not necessarily a defect. I call on food manufacturers to support us. The case of Abdelatif Benazzi, ex-captain of the France team, is emblematic. At 14, he was terribly self-conscious about his weight. He says that rugby saved him. Today, he is the ambassador of our sport internationally, and the spokesperson for our civic projects. If they want to trust us, we can play this role.
Your project is attractive on paper. He will come up against a major problem, that of galloping individualism, of the crisis of voluntary work in small clubs. So-called steeple rugby is on its way out, as you explained, because clubs can no longer find managers to volunteer their time…
We have in the region, in amateur rugby, gatherings of clubs, sometimes seven or eight, so that they constitute a simple team of cadets, cadets or juniors. We are experiencing a volunteering crisis, linked to multiple factors: RTT, teleworking, Covid, civilization of leisure. Should we give up? Those who accuse me of having a political project are right. It is the very essence of sport to bring people together, to unite, and not just to be obsessed with performance. When we were in opposition to the federation, my friends and I traveled the country for six years. Our project is the result of this daily work.
For me, the World Cup is a great lever to get this message across. Whether we win or not, the problem is the same. If we win, hooray! But the fireworks must not become a flash in the pan. It is up to us to prolong the sacred fire by inscribing in stone the educational and civic role of the rugby club in addition to its sporting role.
Are you afraid of hiccups in the organization of the World Cup, which will last more than a month in France, problems of saturated transport, violence in the stadiums, insecurity for supporters of foreign teams?
The atmosphere in rugby is special, it is family, friendly. If there are problems, they will not come from the supporters. The event of the final of the Champion’s League of football was sufficiently dissected by the French security services so that we do not know this kind of excesses. But I can’t predict the future. Overall I’m confident and the France 2023 teams are doing a great job.
This means he has tremendous room for improvement. It vegetates on the African continent, in Asia, in Latin America. We have a huge challenge, to conquer these territories. We need a political will that understands that we can be France’s ambassadors. We have a partnership with the French Development Agency (AFD) of 500,000 euros, certainly appreciable, to develop rugby outside our borders, but that is also a drop in the bucket.
We must involve the major French industrialists to participate in a strategic development plan in the world and make rugby a diplomatic weapon that will emancipate and liberate populations that will be built through our sport. Rugby is not just a hobby or just a place for marketing and advertising. Why not use rugby as a French soft power weapon with the help of AFD and partner companies or patrons? Let’s get moving!
Some observers are already criticizing the preparation of the French team for this World Cup. They consider it too long, too hard physically, which would explain the injury and the package of Romain Ntamack, one of the masters at playing the Blues, with Antoine Dupont. We criticize a framework too focused on a scientific approach to performance, pushed to its extreme, millimeter training where not a second is left to improvisation. We talk about players who have become Robocop, a rugby obsessed with data…
It does not mean anything ! In high-level sport, there is a management of high intensity which requires high technicality. All the big teams have converted to it, whether it’s the New Zealanders, the South Africans, or the others. It’s true, the staff of the France team, its physical trainers, its physiotherapists, its doctors manage what is called the data of this combat sport, where the shocks are rough. They are precise, meticulous, demanding, neglecting no detail on the state of the players. I completely subscribe to this strategy that some critics call scientistic. If we emerge victorious from this test, the same critics will find them formidable. And, don’t worry, I see the players regularly: I assure you, they are not robots, but admirable men.